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#312025 - 26/12/03 04:10 AM "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures *****
Stangeriffic2002
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As many of you know, upgrading the "Big 3" wires in your engine compartment can lower the overall resistance of your entire electrical system. The effects of the lower resistance are typically:

1) Reduced dimming and smaller voltage drops
2) More stable voltage and better current flow
3) Less strain on your vehicle's charging system


So for those of you looking for a cheap and easy way to upgrade your system and help out your electrical system without adding a high output alternator or an aftermarket battery, this is the modification for you. If you have heavy dimming or are getting large voltage drops during loud bass hits, but you don't have the money to spend on a high output alternator or a battery, upgrading your vehicle's "Big 3" will usually help to reduce and sometimes even eliminate the problems. So without further ado, the "Big 3" wires are:

1) Battery negative to chassis
2) Alternator to battery positive
3) Chassis to engine


Now, I suppose it would help if I explained what each of these wires does, and to do that I would like to paraphrase an explanation by IMTfox from a while ago: Think of your vehicle's charging system as two different circuits, one consisting of your amplifier and your battery, and the other consisting of your alternator and your battery. The current in your electrical system flows from your positive battery terminal to your amp, from your amp's ground to the chassis, and then from the chassis back to the negative battery terminal. But how does it get to the positive terminal in the first place? That's where the alternator comes in. Current in the second circuit flows from your alternator's positive post to the battery's positive terminal, then from the battery's negative terminal to the chassis, and from the chassis back to the block, which happens to be the grounding point for your alternator.

So, from your battery, you have the power wire going to the power terminal on your amplifier and then your amplifier is grounded to the chassis of the vehicle. From here the current needs a way to get back to the negative battery terminal, and that way is through the first of the "Big 3," the battery negative to chassis wire. Upgrading this wire will "upgrade" the circuit between your battery and your amp by giving the current a larger path to flow through to get back to the battery.

Now, think of your alternator as the battery and your battery as the amp. From the positive post on your alternator, you have the second of the "Big 3," the alternator to battery positive wire supplying "power" to your battery. From there the battery, just like your amp, is grounded to the chassis through the wire mentioned in the previous paragraph. Again, the current needs a way to get from the chassis back to the alternator's "negative terminal" and that way is through the last of the "Big 3," the chassis to engine wire. Since your alternator is most likely mounted to your engine block using a metal or conductive mounting bracket, you can simply add your new wire from the chassis to one of the mounting posts for the alternator. Upgrading these two wires will "upgrade" the circuit between your alternator and your battery, again giving the current a larger path to flow through.

----------------------------------------------

Now that you understand exactly what the "Big 3" do, it's time to upgrade them to a larger gauge wire. You can use regular power wire from installing your car audio equipment, ring terminals, and crimping equipment just the same as you would for any other install. Let's start with the first of the "Big 3," the battery negative to chassis wire:

1) Disconnect your battery's negative terminal and get the stock wiring out of the way. You might have to cut it and crimp a new ring terminal onto it. I found it helpful to use aftermarket battery terminals with multiple ports on them also.

2) Scrape away the paint and drill the hole for your connection of the larger wire, or connect it to the stock grounding point. Either way you do it, make sure it is bare chassis metal, not covered by paint, and that the connection is as tight and secure as possible:





3) Secure the new wire to the chassis and reconnect the vehicle's stock chassis ground, but DON'T reconnect the vehicle's negative battery terminal yet! You may find it helpful to cover the negative battery terminal with a cloth or other non-conductive material and just lay the terminal on it until you're ready to reconnect it later.

Moving on to the next of the "Big 3," let's upgrade the alternator to battery positive wire:

4) Locate the vehicle's alternator and look for a terminal post connected to it. The post shouldn't be hard to find. It should have only one wire connected to it, and it should lead to the positive terminal on the battery, possibly through the fuse box.



5) Disconnect the stock alternator to battery positive wire from the positive post and connect it to the post again with the new wire added.

6) Run the wire either through your fuse box if applicable or through a fuse. The fuse should be sized to match the max ampacity of your wire, not the output capability of your alternator. As you can see I just went through the fuse box, so my upgrade is probably not making as much of a difference as it could if it were fused externally, but my alternator is capable of withstanding the draws anyway so I'm not particularly worried about it. If I ever begin to see a problem w/ current draws, I will probably fuse the wire externally with a 300A or so fuse...

7) From the fuse, connect the wire to the positive terminal on your battery, again, leaving the stock wiring connected when you're done. The picture below shows the alternator to battery positive wire run from the alternator through my fuse box to the positive battery terminal.



Last, let's move to the chassis to engine wire: (Again, because your alternator is grounded to the block, all you need to do is find a bolt somewhere on the block and connect it to the chassis. The alternator's mounting bracket is usually a good place to find these bolts).

8) Again, either drill a new hole or connect this wire to the stock chassis ground. From the chassis ground, run the wire back to one of the mounting posts for the alternator (or to a bolt on the engine block).



9) That's it! You're done. Reconnect the vehicle's negative battery terminal and check out the difference! Below is a shot of the "Big 3" upgraded in my car. The other wire you see coming out of the battery's positive terminal is obviously my amp's power wire.



----------------------------------------------

Helpful hints:

1) Leave the stock wiring attached after you're done. Don't replace the stock wiring, add onto it. Current will take the path of least resistance anyway, so replacing the stock wire will only make more work for yourself.

2) When fusing your alternator to battery positive wire, fuse it toward the battery end of the wire. As IMTfox points out later in this thread, the battery will explode if it's overloaded, while the alternator will only burn out its regulator which won't cause much damage except to the alternator itself. Exploding batteries are no fun!

3) When crimping large gauge terminals for 1/0awg and sometimes even 4awg, a vice works well. Crimp one side of the terminal at a time, creating an overlapping edge. Put the boot around this and then wrap it in electrical tape if you want. the most secure connections will occur in this way.





4) Lastly, prepare all your materials and tools BEFORE you are ready to upgrade. Know what you are doing before you start so you can be done as quick as possible. The majority of vehicles have computers that will reset after the battery is disconnected for a long time and they can cause older vehicles to do strange things if they reset.

Hopefully this clears up most of the questions you had about why we upgrade the "Big 3" and how it helps to stop dimming and other electrical problems. If not, please don't hesitate to send me a PM.

--Chris
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#312026 - 26/12/03 12:48 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
fubar73
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Great post Chris. Very good job on explaining everything. i only have one simple question though, and that is: you said make sure your fuse from the positive alternator to positive battery is the same amperage as your alternator? would it be a huge problem if my fuse was alot larger than that of my alternator? would that hurt anything or would i be fine? thanks a TON for this post
Greg
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#312027 - 26/12/03 04:25 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
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 Quote:
Originally posted by fubar73:
Great post Chris. Very good job on explaining everything. i only have one simple question though, and that is: you said make sure your fuse from the positive alternator to positive battery is the same amperage as your alternator? would it be a huge problem if my fuse was alot larger than that of my alternator? would that hurt anything or would i be fine? thanks a TON for this post
Greg
As long as the stock wire is still there and still goes through the fuse box or a fusable link it should be alright. The only reason the fuse is there on that wire is so that if the system asks the alternator to produce way more current than it's designed to, it willblow the fuse instead of damaging itself.
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#312028 - 06/01/04 07:51 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
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excellent post Stangeriffic! \:D

The "Big 3" is probably the best thing you can do for your system, and you explained it flawlessly. I did 1 of the 3 tonight (battery ground) and it brought my voltage from around 12.8 at idle, to 14.3/14.4 and the headlights hardly dim now (was VERY bad). cant wait to see how the other 2 wires improve it \:\)
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#312029 - 06/01/04 08:17 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
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the big 3 should be made into an oprah special on how it changed peoples lives lol :p


"i love the big 3.. it totally changed my life!! my wife came back to me, my daughter is on the deans list in college and my erectile disfunction is gone!! i owe it all to chris and the big 3 post he made. thanks chris! I LOVE YOU!!"


haha im stupid :p
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#312030 - 08/01/04 11:39 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
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 Quote:
Originally posted by remote-control:
OK, im about to do the big 3 upgrade to my car.. should i send the alt wire to battery back through the fuse box??? or use a fuse instead? and what size of fuse should i used if yall suggest to bypass fuse box, i will be doing this on a 96 mustang btw (if that helps lol)
well chris went through his fuse box only cuz he had an open spot for a fuse there already. send him a pm if you want to do it that way. otherwise you can go straight to the battery. your fuse on that wire should match the max output of your alternator. let us know of your results (and possibly how it changed your life ;\) )

--kris
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#312031 - 09/01/04 10:55 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
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 Quote:
Originally posted by iceteebone:
i kinda got a quick question. isn't there a wire that goes from the negative on the battery to the engine block? if so will that need to be upgraded? or do i just get a wire and run it from the mounting bracket on the alternator to the chasis?
where the battery is grounded depends on who made the car. what can do is just ground the battery to the closest good spot you can find. it'll be easier/better anyways.

--kris
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#312032 - 10/01/04 05:32 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
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 Quote:
Originally posted by iceteebone:
my car is a 93 grand prix with a 3.1 and the battery negative cable has 2 wires coming out of it. one is grounded to the chasis the other appears to go back to the engine. i just don't know what to do about the wire that goes back to the engine, and is that the same as taking a wire attaching it to the mounting bracket on the alt. and wiring it to the chasis?
my chevy clebrity is the same, its like a lil 16 gauge wire coming from the batt terminal. i just bypassed both and added on another ground. check out my cardomain page ( www.cardomain.com/id/foreversilent004 ) and go to page 2. near the bottom are 3 pics of my big 3. check it out.

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#312033 - 10/01/04 06:06 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
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 Quote:
Originally posted by iceteebone:
ok so do i still leave all the original wire connected and then just add the thicker wire on top of it? don't meen to bother you guys but the local shop wants $500 to install an alt. and i want to do it myself.
yep


$500.. laugh in their face. no way would i ever pay that

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#312034 - 10/01/04 06:40 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
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 Quote:
Originally posted by iceteebone:
Alt. bracket to chasis?
that OR ground the engine block wherever you can. the alt is bolted to the block, which in turn has a ground thats attached to the chassis. its asically whatever is easier. i grounded my alt by removing one of my bolts from my engine head and putting the wire there. (refer to my page again if you want) other good spots are the area by the radiator, or the wheel wells.

--kris
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#312035 - 14/01/04 12:17 AM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
beaner
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 Quote:
Originally posted by Stangeriffic2002:
As many of you know, upgrading the "Big 3" wires in your engine compartment can lower the overall resistance of your entire electrical system. The effects of the lower resistance are typically:


Hopefully this clears up most of the questions you had about why we upgrade the "Big 3" and how it helps to stop dimming and other electrical problems. If not, please don't hesitate to send me a PM.

--Chris
hey man,,, thats one GREAT POST,,, best one i've ever read! keep up the good work.

Well i wanted to ask you if the knukonceptz wiring is good. I don't know if i should get knukonceptz or streetwires. Knukonceptz seems to be a little cheaper, but i'll just wait till u tell me what to do.

Im driving a jeep grand cherokee and i would like to know how much wire im going to need for my install. I wanna ask an expert about this so i chose you hehe \:D
Im going to be running 2 XXX 15s powered by 2 MTX 1501Ds. i will have front battery and an extra one on the back. I would like to know how much wire im going to need. Power wire, ground wire, fuses, RCAs, speaker wire. You let me know man, you are the CHAMP. thanx...

P.S. i had to erase parts of your post because it was too long. I couldnt send my private message to ya unless i would make it smaller. IT'S ONE HELL OF A POST MAN, YOU A GOOD GUY. \:D

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#312036 - 14/01/04 12:31 AM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
Stangeriffic2002
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Thanks for the props bro. I was just sick of seeing the same question asked OVER and OVER and OVER \:D

As for your install I'd say that about 20 - 22 ft would do it for the amp and extra battery, and 6-8 for the big three. Get a little more though, just in case. \:\) RCAs will come in a set length. For speaker wire it depends on how and where you want to wire your subs. You're also going to need a distro block for the two amps. For the fuse, 250-300A should be fine (on the main line) and probably 125 on each of the splits after the distro block if you use 4awg.

Oh yeah, and as to your question about the quality of knukonceptz, I use all knukonceptz wiring and IMO it's the best you can get for the price. \:\)
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#312037 - 16/01/04 01:25 AM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
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 Quote:
Originally posted by GordoNx3o9:
wow thank you for the nice explanation ... i just have couple of questions:

6) Run the wire either through your fuse box if applicable or through a fuse. The fuse should be sized to match the max output of your alternator, not to ampacity of the wire you're using.

I'm looking at my car's owner's manual booklet. It says that the alternator is 14v/90A. So i need to get a 90A fuse for that wire? Correct?

Also, you used electric tape to tape up the FIRST big 3 wire. Is that necessary? How does taping it help? Thanks again ...
90A is what you need.

The only reason I taped up the first wire was because it was so short and i originally had tried bending it around to the stock grounding location and loosened the crimps. I taped the entire wire just to be sure that the crimps wouldn't come off.
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#312038 - 17/01/04 01:14 AM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
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 Quote:
Originally posted by GordoNx3o9:
wait wait, is there even such thing as 90A? I thought 80A was the biggest?
I have a 300A on mine ;\)

I don'tknow if exactly a 90A exists, but they definitely get way bigger than that...ANE fuses go all the way up to like 550A.
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#312039 - 19/01/04 11:27 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
JT Clark
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 Quote:

Originally posted by Big Rod:
What size of wire would you guys recommend for the Big 3?
Use what you're using for power and ground wires. Easiest way to make sure it's large enough. And you can just order a few extra feet of it.

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#312040 - 21/01/04 03:15 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
GordoNx3o9
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 Quote:
Originally posted by iceteebone:
when putting a fuse in the wire going from the alt. to battery positive, does the fuse have to be close to the battery like on an amp or near the alt. or anywhere?
Like Stangeriffic said:
2) When fusing your alternator to battery positive wire, fuse it in the middle if you're using an aftermarket fuse and not going through your fuse box. Some would argue that it should be closer to the battery and others that it should be closer to the alternator, but damage could occur going in either direction, so the best compromise is to fuse it directly between the two in the center.

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#312041 - 21/01/04 05:28 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
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you could always get 2 fuses and put them on both sides of the wires ;\)
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#312042 - 26/01/04 04:02 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
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 Quote:
Originally posted by PsychoKoala:
I have a question/suggestion/comment, as for the wire upgrade from chassis to engine block (alt ground) why not just ground the alternator directly to the negative post of the battery? this would eliminate any resistance found between the chassis grounding points of the battery and alt.
Because the chassis is not all that resistant and it eliminates the need to try to cram all those wires/terminals/ring connectors onto the negative battery terminal. It would be fine if we were using like 8awg wire, but try arranging two pieces of 1/0awg so they fit around there... ;\)
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#312043 - 06/02/04 07:39 AM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
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 Quote:
Originally posted by bassmonky:
I was just wondering if "The Big 3" helps so much why aren't vehicles wired like that in the first place?
Because large gauge wire is expensive, and the average everyday vehicle does not need to support upwards of 200A of current being drawn on a continuous basis. It would be a costly, unnecessary modifcation for 90% of the vehicles on the road today.
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#312044 - 06/02/04 03:02 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
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More like 99%... \:D Manufacturers need to save weight everywhere possible so they wire for what the car needs and save as much weight so they can maximize fuel economy. Plus it probably saves them $1 per car to use smaller wires and that can add up big for them.

And to answer a question earlier about the fuse on the alt to battery positive, it's better to have it on the battery side as close as possible because the battery will blow up if it is shorted where the regulator will pop on the alt if it's grounded. The regulator is much easier to fix than a piece of 4ga welded to your frame and covered in battery acid under a giant dent in your hood... \:D
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#312045 - 09/02/04 12:55 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
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 Quote:
Originally posted by imtfox:
And to answer a question earlier about the fuse on the alt to battery positive, it's better to have it on the battery side as close as possible because the battery will blow up if it is shorted where the regulator will pop on the alt if it's grounded. The regulator is much easier to fix than a piece of 4ga welded to your frame and covered in battery acid under a giant dent in your hood... \:D
Sounds good. Thanks for clearing that up. \:\)
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#312046 - 23/02/04 12:37 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
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 Quote:
Originally posted by Weasel:
I am very new to this site and I just got done reading these posts. I am a mechanic and one money saving solution I would like to recommend for the alt to batt wire is instead of a new fuse which can be spendy and akward to install in congested engine compartments is the use of chafe wrap. It can be purchased at most autoparts stores and is reletively cheap. I have used it to protect power lines fuel lines and anything else of that nature in a car and it is very reliable.
The fuse is not there to protect the wire in this case, it's there to break the connection in case of a short so you don't blow up your battery, put a dent in your hood and spray battery acid all over your block... ;\)
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#312047 - 24/02/04 12:56 AM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
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 Quote:
Originally posted by Weasel:
The chafe wrap will eliminate or reduce the the possibility of a short therefore eliminating the need for a fuse
Nothing eliminates the need for a fuse. Wrapping the wire in a layer of chafe wrap is just like adding another layer of insulation, it won't di anything electrically if it rubs through. That's like saying wrapping your wire in a layer of header tape will protect it electrically as well as from heat; it just isn't true.

I'm not trying to insult you or your intelligence with autos, but nothing eliminates the electrical significance of a fuse, especially when it's protecting your battery which could explode and send acid all over the place.
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#312048 - 28/02/04 12:44 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
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I hate to ask another repetitive question, but i am still not sure and want to be clear on this. leave ALL stock wires exactly as they were, including the alt positive connection and the stock fused alternator to battery connection? And i can leave the stock wire fused w/whatever it has on it, and add another fuse to the new wire from alt. to battery? thank you again for this great post.
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#312049 - 28/02/04 01:02 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
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yes leave stock ones in place just add the new ones
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#312050 - 28/02/04 05:56 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
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 Quote:
Originally posted by Papichulo7274:
ALright guys I need some help. I just finished my battery negative to chassis upgrade and my positive alternator to the positive battery.

Now for the final upgrade the ground for the alternator to chassis I have a problem. On my alternator the postive post was clear with a red rubber cap on it. Little further down on the alternator was a a small 8 gauge wire that connected to the alternator via a wierd plastic connector device. (I hope i've explained this correct) ,
I'm guessing that this is the ground for the alternator but I have no clue on how to connect my 4 gauge wire to it. I tried to get a picture of it but my cameras acting up right now.

P.S. The car is a 98 Montero Sport. Alternator located at the far bottom of the engine.
The alt usually grounds out through the case. The mounting bolts make the connection between the alt and the block. So if you connect the block to the frame with the 4ga wire, you'll be covered.

The other wire and harness is most likely a feedback for the computer.
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#312051 - 29/02/04 09:25 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
Dookie
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Registered: 30/04/02
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Heu guys, I need a little help here...

I have a 2003 Nissan Murano and plan on doing the Big 3. From looking at the engine bay, it looks as if there will be a problem with running the alternator to battery charging wire. With thie Nissan (and I think most others), the charging wire runs into this little junction box that acts as both a fuse and a battery + terminal. How can I work around that? If anybody has them, please post pics. I will post some later when I get home. Thanks again,
Dustin

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#312052 - 05/03/04 11:33 PM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
PUNKYOU007
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Registered: 16/10/02
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Loc: Richmond,VA

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I drive a 67 chrysler. and i already have a 2ga. wire from my battery to engine. and a 2ga. from my engine to chassis. but my alt being a 37 year old alt works off of a three wire setup unlike the new one wire alts. also it doesnt use bolt or studs to connect the wires instead it uses spade connectors. so doesn anyone know how i can hook up a nice big wire to a spade connector? ima be lost man....
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#312053 - 10/03/04 01:29 AM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
moburban
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I've got a 94 suburban, and will be running 0/1 gauge to my amps - would 4 gauge be ok, at least temporarily? I have a TON of 4 guage and fuse holders/ring terminals lying around. Great post, really makes everything crystal clear (especially the more confusing 3rd one, where everyone imagines getting under their engine block)
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#312054 - 13/03/04 01:18 AM Re: "Big 3" Upgrade Thread, With Pictures
SHRÉK_dup1
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Registered: 11/08/02
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 Quote:
Originally posted by moburban:
I've got a 94 suburban, and will be running 0/1 gauge to my amps - would 4 gauge be ok, at least temporarily? I have a TON of 4 guage and fuse holders/ring terminals lying around. Great post, really makes everything crystal clear (especially the more confusing 3rd one, where everyone imagines getting under their engine block)
Sure it will be fine for a temp. setup, but why go through the trouble, do it once and do it right.

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